• warning: Creating default object from empty value in /home/speedfly/public_html/sites/all/modules/advanced_forum/includes/advanced_forum_preprocess_comment.inc on line 140.
  • strict warning: Non-static method view::load() should not be called statically in /home/speedfly/public_html/sites/all/modules/views/views.module on line 906.
  • strict warning: Declaration of views_handler_field_comment::init() should be compatible with views_handler_field::init(&$view, $options) in /home/speedfly/public_html/sites/all/modules/views/modules/comment/views_handler_field_comment.inc on line 0.
  • strict warning: Declaration of views_handler_filter::options_validate() should be compatible with views_handler::options_validate($form, &$form_state) in /home/speedfly/public_html/sites/all/modules/views/handlers/views_handler_filter.inc on line 0.
  • strict warning: Declaration of views_handler_filter::options_submit() should be compatible with views_handler::options_submit($form, &$form_state) in /home/speedfly/public_html/sites/all/modules/views/handlers/views_handler_filter.inc on line 0.
  • strict warning: Declaration of views_handler_filter_node_status::operator_form() should be compatible with views_handler_filter::operator_form(&$form, &$form_state) in /home/speedfly/public_html/sites/all/modules/views/modules/node/views_handler_filter_node_status.inc on line 0.
  • strict warning: Declaration of views_handler_filter_boolean_operator::value_validate() should be compatible with views_handler_filter::value_validate($form, &$form_state) in /home/speedfly/public_html/sites/all/modules/views/handlers/views_handler_filter_boolean_operator.inc on line 0.
  • strict warning: Declaration of views_plugin_row::options_validate() should be compatible with views_plugin::options_validate(&$form, &$form_state) in /home/speedfly/public_html/sites/all/modules/views/plugins/views_plugin_row.inc on line 0.
  • strict warning: Declaration of views_plugin_row::options_submit() should be compatible with views_plugin::options_submit(&$form, &$form_state) in /home/speedfly/public_html/sites/all/modules/views/plugins/views_plugin_row.inc on line 0.

reputable statistics for speedriding and speedflying

24 posts / 0 new
Last post
kitesurfa
reputable statistics for speedriding and speedflying

Submitted by clarky

i would like to put together some statistics backed up by reputable sources in hopes of showing ski resorts in canada that this sport would be an acceptable activity to have on their mountain. if anyone can provide accurate information on the history of the sport it would be very much appreciated. i will of course compile my own info as well but having something to cross reference with would be very usefull.

i would like to be able to show the activities director at nakiska ski resort in alberta canada the following facts.

-deaths to date in relation to number of participants.
-ski resorts that currently allow this activity and contacts for these resorts so we can speak to these resorts for there own opinions and experiences.
-the age of the sport.
- the growth rate of the sport and projected growth.( number of participants each year.)
- good reasons why we shouldn't lump this sport in with paragliding and hang gliding, because as of today it is a no go for these sports at this location.
- and any other suggestions or contacts to people who have achieved this goal in the past.

any help in these matters would be greatly appreciated.

best regards,
clarky.

Your rating: None Average: 1 (2 votes)
Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Brett McNary (not verified)

A real list of speedflying fatalities-

 

http://www.speed-flying.com/fatality-list

kitesurfa

Submitted by Anonymous

 

ok i've put alot of thought into it. and this is only my opinion. but i'm not pursuing this any farther. i'm happy to just keep hiking and flying the back country if it means the absolute freedom of the activity. i would hate to see it become something i would have to take a course for and have rateings and all that stuff it only costs alot of money and doesn't teach me more than i can find out through independant sources. i know this is the opposite of my origional thoughts. and i know it would generaly be a safer way for most to learn, but the more i see the way paragliding is set up the more of a foul taste it leaves in my mouth. with that note all you guys can take it where you wish, how you wish ect. but i'm logging off this site and not becoming part of the comunity. cheers, blueskies. stay free.

 

kitesurfa

Submitted by mt7wildcard

 

Too answer both of those questions:

The opinion of the ski hills at this time is that paragliding and speed flying are the same. They are OK with speedriding if we are not endangering the ski hill customers. I wouldn't want to rock the boat or awaken the giant by getting the insurance companies involved.

Like any insurance company........the HPAC insurer would try any way possible NOT to cover us in an incident. So I would say that they would not.

I have sent an email to the HPAC board for clarification. They are initially having reluctance for all the reasons we have already discussed. But are going to revisit it at the next Administrators meeting.

It could change in the future if there was an 'approved' training school in Canada that had a solid curriculum and levels of qualification specified. I'm not interested in doing that but would fully support someone who is.

I think the uncertified wing issue could be circumvented with the current confusion of testing authorities anyway. EN......DHV.....LTF.

There are many paragliders flown in Canada and worldwide that aren't using any of the 'accepted' certification groups.

Scott

 

kitesurfa

Submitted by ram_air_man

 

It would be nice to get in with HPAC, they have secured a few ski hills and are working with Parks Canada towards getting paragliding allowed in the National Parks....

Perhaps somebody could email the business manager and get the ball rolling, I am sure the BM of HPAC would also have definite answers about their insurance as well....

http://www.hpac.ca/pub/?pid=97

I would, but my PR skills suck

 

kitesurfa

Submitted by Swoopn

 

Scott;
The sites that are currently open in Canada require an HPAC membership. I know that you have done a lot to secure these sites open for speed flying. The one question I did not ask you is; will the HPAC insurance cover speed flying incidents?
Greg

 

kitesurfa

Submitted by mt7wildcard

 

Hello Clarky,

There are a few ski hills in Canada that allow paragliding. If you want to approach it from that angle you can email me to discuss further.

adventures(at)heliparagliding.com

Scott

 

kitesurfa

Submitted by clarky

 

thanks to everyone for contributing!! this is the type of info i'm looking for! this objective reasoning is awesome. i have concluded that until there is a much better data pool that is backed by an appropriatly structured governing body for speedflying/riding to be the reputable source for such information it is innapropriate to approach public ski facilities to make the sport an accepted activity. it's just too risky to jepardise the reputation of this sport. i'll just have to be content hiking in canada as there isn't a legal way to take gondolas or chair lifts..... all in good time i suppose. come on HPAC! get it together we need the support!! now i know my next move, it is to advocate for HPAC to accept speedflying as a dissipline of paragliding. it might seem like an obvious move in hind sight, but i needed some clarity on the subject. cheers, and blue skies!!

clarky.

 

kitesurfa

Submitted by Swoopn

 

I can tell you with absolute certainty they have not. I have done hundreds of flights there, organized classes,

kitesurfa

Submitted by ram_air_man

 

The Ground Launch Center in California has a training schedule laid out, they claim to teach both G.L. and speedflying.

http://www.groundlaunching.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=120&Itemid=139&lang=en

If we are lucky the school might have collected some data from it's student base and have some kind of stats the

kitesurfa

Submitted by Swoopn

kitesurfa;

I stand corrected for Europe, but in the US/Canada no such regulations/ guidelines exist.

 

kitesurfa

thanks for posting the details....

kitesurfa
... speed flying is more dangerous than paragliding. This could be attributed to the fact that there is no governing body, setting instruction, license guidelines, equipment,monitoring and requirementsw. These are issues that an insurance company is going to look at.


Not strictly true for all points...
Instruction/license guidelines - for most of Europe they use the details posted here as the basic guidelines and instruction progress
http://www.speed-flying.com/instruction-guidelines
others tailor the instruction to the individuals ability/experience etc.
Speed-Gliders are built to the same standards as Paragliders and EN926 load tested. They dont get a DHV rating because they are under 20m² and they are not paragliders.

kitesurfa

Submitted by Swoopn

 

Yep:
This was taken from dropzone.com;
Location; Outside of Skydive San Diego
Age of deceased; 32
The mountain in question is frequented by paragliders, hikers and ground-launchers alike.

On Thursday we had bad weather. Most of the usual ground launching crew were not around. Dave went up the mountain by himself. An observer from the dz saw him trying to launch. He had a few failed attempts. He got lift and was in full fight. Keep in mind it is some distance away, so it was not possible to see toggle input. The observer stated that he had plenty of lift and altitude and then saw a hard 180. He ran to manifest and said he was pretty sure someone just crashed into the mountain. At that time several people from the dz set out on the challenging hike to find him. When he was reached, he was dead on impact. Our boys sat with him for 45 minutes until life flight arrived, verified him as deseased and extracted him from the steep incline.

Dave was flying a Pilot 150. His skydiving wing had been a 170 and he had just recently downsized to a 150. He had put a few flights on the Pilot prior to his final run.
____________________________________________________________

It was also indicated he was a rather novice speedflier/Ground launcher, and a beginner skydiver (~200jumps). I have flown these "mountains" and they are by not ideal for instruction.

IMHO lessons to be learned;
1) Never fly alone
2) Always have a rescue plan in place (ie GPS coordinates for rescue, communication to outside world.......etc)
3) Never fly in conditions/locations that excessively exceed your experience and/or ability

I won't get started on the gear, as this has already moved far enough from the OP subject

 

kitesurfa
so speedflying is more dangerous than paragliding..... please provide accurate statistics to prove the opinion, and not hear say or prefered conlusions.


Been keeping an eye on numbers of fatalities since 2006 and the list I have has 14 speed-flyers listed. This list is nowhere near complete, there has been more. Problem is nobody posts anything on the subject on any of the forums to get anything like accurate figures.

kitesurfa
I know of one speed flying fatality in the US (in San Diego).


Do you have more details ?

kitesurfa

Submitted by Swoopn

 

I think you've missed the point here. With out a governing body any statistics posted on speed flying are highly pron to error and are hear-say that could be skewed to a preferred opinion.

However, that being said last year I know of one speed flying fatality in the US (in San Diego). The source of speed fliers in the US are heavy rooted from the skydiving community and numbers I would estimate around 100-200. Making it 5-10deaths/1000pilots. Plus if memory serves correct there was 9 fatalities in Europe last year.

Paragliding fatalities in the US (with 10K+ pilots)
3.58 fatalities/ year SD=2.74, based on fatalities from 1993-2004, therefore 0.36 deaths/1000pilots

So yes, based on this speed flying is more dangerous than paragliding. This could be attributed to the fact that there is no governing body, setting instruction, license guidelines, equipment,monitoring and requirementsw. These are issues that an insurance company is going to look at.

I am not going to forget the reason why you want to gather this info. as it does potentially impact me. In my 7 years of speed flying I have seen an alarming trend of people with little or no training, flying in the mountains on and off resort lines. I've seen everything from; people with no aviation experience to people with basic skydiving/paragliding experience engaging in speedflying, without the appreciation that speed-flying is NOT skydiving nor is it paragliding. It is just a matter of time before an innocent by-stander gets seriously hurt or killed. By opening up more resort mountains with no governing body will only expedite said scenario, and it will be dam near impossible to get any mountain to allow speed flying after that happens.

 

kitesurfa

Submitted by clarky

 

so speedflying is more dangerous than paragliding..... please provide accurate statistics to prove the opinion, and not hear say or prefered conlusions. i'm not disscussing hpac, insurance, or weather one opinion is more accurate than the other here. forget my reason for wanting the info. lets just create a statistical data pool for speed flying. lets not get lost in how to govern the activity. lets just accumulate irrifutable facts.....an accurate history will provide objectivity and direction with out supporting a preffered conclusion. cheers.

 

kitesurfa

Submitted by mt7wildcard

 

By my count.......I know 15 speed wing owners in W. Canada. There are probably 10 more or so but that isn't necessarily including the ground launchers of the skydive world. Plus the same numbers are possible in Eastern Canada.

Scott

 

kitesurfa

Submitted by Swoopn

 

A waiver will not simply work, because you need liability insurance for the scenarios Scott has mentioned and for the scenarios not mentioned or even thought of. I can not comment on the details of Europe sites but I am aware that they require an advanced paragliding license. So I may speculate that some of their countries paragliding associations cover speed fliers.

Numbers that you need to keep in mind are; HPAC has ~870 members, USHPA has ~10K members, and Europe 10 times that of the US. Taking this into consideration you see the financial leverage difference and understand how they can afford the insurance coverage.

I think it may be interesting to find out how many Canadian speed-fliers there are. In my opinion this is going to the first step in determining a reasonable path forward.

kitesurfa

Submitted by ram_air_man

 

You've got a point about the liability issues, there is always somebody looking to sue in this country.

Perhaps a simply waiver will do for most ski hills...

What are they doing in Europe and USA to get around the legal issues????

 

kitesurfa

Submitted by mt7wildcard

 

As a member of HPAC I am aware that they probably will never bring speed flying into their fold.

Their problem is that speed wings aren't certified under any recognized organization. Neither are the harnesses. To top that off, the harnesses aren't equiped with back protection or reserve/emergency/rescue parachutes.

It always boils down to the insurance company. The company isn't willing to accept the liability of such equipment.

On the other hand.........if all speed fliers were to become members under the auspices of participating in 'paragliding' then they would have the necessary insurance that the ski hill would require. All the ski hill really wants is a way to cover their butts. Most of the time they don't know the difference anyway. But the person speedriding would be assuming liability if there was an accident. Generally not that big a deal, right? Except if you land in a field with horses that get spooked and run into a fence then need to be euthanized. What if the horses are prize jumping stallions worth big bucks? Or....if a parent has a child slam into a tree while skiing and become parapelegic while watching you swoop right in front of them?

Hey, this is N. America.

Scott

 

kitesurfa

Submitted by ram_air_man

 

Has anybody ever approached HPAC to see if they would let us into their association. It might be easier to convince the sky hills to let us fly if we had some insurance coverage and liability waivers. It might help.... just an idea

 

kitesurfa

Submitted by mt7wildcard

 

Hello Clarke,

As someone who has a fair bit of flying experience at the few ski hills that allow it in Canada, I suggest that you attempt to get them to allow 'paragliding'. Even the places that allow paragliding are still somewhat opposed to speedriding.

There is no doubt that paragliding is far safer than speed flying so it would seem that they would be more likely to say yes. Especially if they were to gather some input from the other, nearby ski hills. The big thing that the hill wants to see is proof of liability insurance. The paragliding association provides this. Speedriding has none.

Since speed flying isn't a fully regulated sport the deaths and participant numbers are merely speculation.

Email me at heliparagliding (at) persona.ca if you want to discuss this further.

Scott